SB 1346: Motor Vehicles Boyce said his wife does not even want to drive the car as she is worried about being ticketed or having the car towed again. Posted 10:05:06 PM. They gave me temporary 30-day plates and said I would receive permanent plates and title in 30 days. He showed Stoogenke the paperwork, and it said he doesnt owe any money. They still haven't sent them," he said. If a company like Carvana wont settle, we fight to the end. The Reason Carvana's Problems Suggest Online Car Buying Has A Ways To Go . Nationwide, the Better Business Bureau has received hundreds of complaints about this issue. He has now filed two class action lawsuit I dont care at this point, said Boom. If you wait, the statute of limitations is ticking. Jergens said. Multiple issues trying to buy a vehicle. ). Carvana is leaving their mistake of not asking for a title in states that require the owner to keep the title in hand. The money she has paid towards the Elantra will be applied to her new loan. While Carvana did not provide the I-Team with an explanation for the violations, the company's November letter to shareholders provided some insight. As of the date the lawsuit was filed, Carvana still has not provided Plaintiff permanent registration as it was required to do pursuant to its contractual agreement with the consumer, the lawsuit claims. Stay away at all costs. The Texas Department of Motor Vehicles tells KPRC 2 investigates licensed dealers in Texas can only provide buyers with one paper plate from Texas. However, countless consumer reviews document instances in which buyers question whether their vehicles passed Carvanas so-called thorough inspections and promised standards. It also reported a $506 million loss over the first quarter of 2022. This isn't the first issue that Carvana faced this year. Wake County DMV would not let Carvana sell cars for six months because of tag, title and other issues. Sales for Carvana dropped 7% during the first quarter of this year. Ripoff Report | CARVANA complaints, reviews, scams, lawsuits and frauds reported, 29 results CARVANA Ripoff Reports, Complaints, Reviews, Scams, Lawsuits and Frauds Reported Your Search: CARVANA There may be more reports for "CARVANA" For more results perform a general search for "CARVANA" Delayed delivery. Since Contact Denver7 first started investigating complaints about the online car dealership Carvana, the state of Colorado is taking action. Carvana provides car shoppers a better way to buy a car. The suit alleges that Carvana has unlawfully delayed transferring cars' titles for months. 24050885, not admitted in Georgia) and A. Cyclone Covey (GA Bar No. It needed to be tagged. That violation of state law also came with a $47,000 fine. Those violations are: Issuing temporary registration plates of another state to Illinois residents, which is illegal. Last minute problems due to not being able to use a lot of their default answers and arbitrary policies. The allegation in that suit is that the company violated Pennsylvanias Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practices Act through its issuing temporary vehicle registrations while improperly collecting car registration and licensing fees from customers. Carvana is an online used car retailer based in Tempe, Arizona. The state says that its found some Carvana customers who have waited for four to six months for proof of ownership. The problem - they cant get the vehicles registered because the dealer cant provide the title or the permanent license plate. But thats where another issue plagues Carvana. A lot of the Carvana complaints seem to center on title transfers and registrations. When it provided the improper Tennessee registration, Carvana concealed from the Plaintiff that it was not authorized by the State of Tennessee to do so, the suit claims, alleging that the plaintiff, to date, still has not received permanent registration for the vehicle. If you need help with the Public File, call (713) 778-4745. Carvana's six-month sales ban in Raleigh came after North Carolina officials found the company failed to provide title paperwork to the state's Division of Motor Vehicles, sold a vehicle without a state inspection, and issued out-of-state temporary tags on a vehicle sold to a state resident. Now, this proposed law in Florida would get rid of that issue by simply removing the law that required Carvana and all dealers to obtain the title of a vehicle. Somehow, despite selling 117,564 cars in Q2 2022, Carvana still posted a $439 million loss. The check engine light comes on, and it wouldn't go over 40 miles an hour," Harriott said.She said she battled with Carvana for six months over mechanical and registration issues, returning two . Take this guy's experience: For Brian Thompson, a Carvana buyer in Michigan, the hassle of trying to . This is just the latest in somewhat negative press for Carvana. As the largest online auto retailer, Carvana is an appealing option for consumers who want the ease of an online car buying experience and to avoid the inherent bureaucratic hoops of a traditional car dealership. Motor Vehicle Dealer Online Complaint System. Managed, consulted and coached managers and supervisors on projects, programs, and . I took a loan on this car have gotten a few letters from my bank (Bank of America) to submit a form to the DMV to put them as a lienholder. Sometimes forged or fabricated documents that affect property ownership are filed within public records, obscuring the rightful ownership of the property. Multiple drivers have complained to Action 9 investigator Jason. But I dont have six more thousand to throw out I dont, he said. It also reported a $506 million loss. The case similarly claims that Carvana instead, in October and without the legal right or authorization to do so, provided the driver with a new temporary tag from Tennessees Department of Motor Vehicles. We use state consumer protection laws to force dealerships to hand the title over and pay your damages from the trouble theyve caused you. The purchase of Adesa by Carvana has been controversial in some circles. Carvana says the allegations have zero merit and claims no liability. Similar paperwork issues have been reported in other states. Date of experience: January 09, 2023. Copyright 2021 by KPRC Click2Houston - All rights reserved. Read more here: Camp Lejeune Lawsuit Claims. Get browser notifications for breaking news, live events, and exclusive reporting. (She told the officer she bought car in August 2020). Migliaccio & Rathod wants to hold Carvana accountable to the standards to which they claim to adhere, so that consumers do not continue to suffer as a result of this failure. The difference between other dealers and Carvana is Carvana struggled to manage its excess inventory gracefully, thanks in part to what some former employees claim is explosive growth contributing to logistics problems. Once you've found the car that's right for you, click "Get Started" to see all the steps on the online purchase dashboard. if there's a title issue, they call once or twice," said Brian Kramer, general manager of Germain Toyota of Naples, Fla. . Andre Dixon bought a car from Carvana back in January of 2021. The 14-page lawsuit claims that Carvana's title transfer delays have prevented consumers from being able to legally drive the cars they purchased given they cannot timely register the vehicles or get adequate insurance coverage. For additional information with enforcement actions, you can call the TxDMV (888) 368-4689 or (512) 465-4204. According to Automotive News,Pennsylvania regulators have suspended two Carvana locations Philadelphia and Bridgeville fromperforming motor vehicle titling and registration actions. "The company they're running is atrocious," Michael Jergens said. Our firm is handling hundreds of consumer arbitrations at any given time. Delivery changed to "next scheduled" rather than asap. On July 20, 2021, Carvana LLC entered into a Settlement Agreement with the Los Angeles County District Attorney's office. But for the states that the owner holds the title, it would take considerably longer to get one issued. But Carvana's problem wasn't becoming profitable it was staying profitable. What are we doing? He of course brought up the covid pandemic, something which initially worked in favor of the company as people wanted to buy cars but didnt want to interact with others face-to-face. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. In May, the company had its license suspended in the state of Illinois for failure to issue vehicle titles, with customers allegedly waiting for months before receiving them. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Migliaccio & Rathod LLP is currently investigating online used car retailer Carvana for widely reported issues of insufficiently inspected vehicles and excessive delays in vehicle title transfers. Maryland now joins several other states in fining the company for these delays. But this is a bigger problem. No tracking was provided, it just showed up. We look forward to resolving this issue with minimal disruption to customers, they continued. Upon receipt of payment a duplicate title will be requested by CarvanaACCESS from the issuing state. ---PhoneEmailEither. It seems the growth-at-all-costs strategy has sputtered. We present your case just like we would in court. Sales for Carvana dropped 7% during the first quarter of. "When I first showed it to my wife, she started tearing up," Boyce said. 2023 CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. 22-year-old Peyton Harden is happy with this 2018 Hyundai Elantra she purchased from Carvana in August of 2020, she just cant drive it. Many report that their Carvana vehicles have required costly repairs shortly after purchase, including cracked taillights, major brake issues, and oil leaks. Moreover, most states allow dealers 30-45 days to deliver vehicle titles to buyers, yet Carvana buyers complain of waiting months to receive their title, often leaving them with expired temporary tags on their vehicle. That factor should be affecting more than just Carvana, signaling potential trouble across the industry. Buyers who encounter a problem with a licensed Texas dealer should file a dealer complaint with the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles here: A: Buyers should file a complaint by clicking here. Multiple drivers have complained to Action 9 investigator Jason Stoogenke recently about a range of issues involving the car dealer. In the past 9 months, market value for Carvana has plummeted a whopping 92%. "It's been more than a headache," Boyce said, "It's been terrible. Am I able to register my vehicle in a different state than my delivery address? You cant do that without a title. Cookie Notice This hour of KPRC 2 News Today delivers news, weather, and traffic along with the biggest topics impacting our community every day - exclusively on the KPRC 2+ livestream. Get upfront price offers on local inventory. You need to enable JavaScript to run this app. About Carvana. This December, a buzzy startup called Carvana drove away with my car, cutting me a check for $20,905 . I believe they had the same issue with Carvana wanting to stay as the lien hold. However, these two locations can still sell cars. Across the country, news outlets have been reporting on similar stories. Pagani Teases New C10 Hypercar That Replaces The Huayra Ahead Of September Debut, Despite Record Profits, Toyota Is Concerned With Rising Costs And Inflation, Carvana Lays Off 12% Of Its Work Force On The Same Day It Buys Auction Rival For $2.2B. Carvana currently has an arbitration agreement which might mean you have to go to arbitration, not to court. The Texas Department of Motor Vehicles has cited the company for 80 violations starting in 2019 and 59 cease and desist orders. We may be able to help. Those complaints allege the company has delayed getting car titles and registrations to consumers after the purchase process was completed. Carvana has compliantly operated as a licensed dealer and good corporate citizen in the State of Illinois for several years, and we strongly disagree with the States characterization of both the facts and the law leading to this action, a Carvana spokesperson said in a statement. Q: How many temporary plates are they allowed to issue on one vehicle? The online used car retailer Carvana is facing multiple legal battles, including a class-action lawsuit, Channel 9 has learned. Attorneys Committed to Consumer Protection. They may not be able to get the prior owner to sign it overwhich means you can never legally own the car you just bought. The reason behind the North Carolina ban and probation is the same as the issues currently at stake in Florida, such as untimely paperwork filing, and title issues. Carvana has faced legal action and fines for failing to produce titles and selling vehicles without a license in California, North Carolina, Florida and Michigan. Pennsylvania Unfair Trade Practices and Consumer Protection Law, New to ClassAction.org? The agreement settles allegations that the business sold cars in the. (Copyright 2021 by KPRC Click2Houston - All rights reserved. [3] [4] [5] Carvana was named to the 2021 Fortune 500 List, one of the youngest companies to be added to the list. ATLANTA - Carvana markets itself as an easy way to buy a car. Alan Boyce's wife had always dreamed of owning a yellow Chevy Camaro, so when Boyce found the perfect car on Carvana.com he clicked on it and bought it. In the past two years, according to state records, Vroom has also been cited more than 20 times for similar registration and title violations. Arbitrations take time even in the best of worlds. Since the case is so new, the judge wont decide on that for a while. Carvana claims to perform detailed inspections, test drive every vehicle on multiple occasions, verify that each vehicle is repaired to meet strict standards, and inform buyers of any major imperfections on the vehicle. 4 1 1 comment Best Add a Comment mrswoke13 2 yr. ago Look on the negative thread. In today's video I get into some breaking news with Carvana, and an unbelievable story out of Texas where a woman purchased a car and still didn't have regis. according to records from Michigan Department of State. That isnt good for the company image, which undoubtedly will negatively impact sales in the coming months. A few weeks in, I get an email from Carvana that they are experiencing a delay and they send me a link to new temporary plates that expire in August. If they cant, it often means somethings wrong. But companies like Carvana will almost always have a lawyer there. Online car buyers can choose a car from the Carvana website, select financing terms . 346 reviews for Carvana, 1.4 stars: 'Car was filthy inside. If Carvana made a mistake with listing the incorrect lienholder, how would I go about checking that. The suit alleges Carvana has run afoul of the Pennsylvania Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practices Act. Shes already been told once by a police officer not to be driving the car. Carvana is still fairly new to the car dealer industry. Garcia argues the move will reduce costs associated with refurbishing and shipping used cars. It's been a bumpy ride with Carvana so far (delayed delivery, repair shop taking a week to fix small items, travel reimbursement check taking almost 3 months to finally be delivered), so I wouldn't be surprised if this was from another mistake. For example, Illinois recently suspended Carvanas dealership license after an investigation concluded the company has been failing to transfer vehicle titles to customers while abusing out-of-state temporary registration permits. That's purely insane, as the title is the one document that states who truly owns the property. Or, the consumer may obtain a 30-day permit directly from their county tax office or TxDMV Regional Service Center. Records show at least 13 complaints. So if you try to arbitrate, its you against a lawyerand you usually lose. Since January, Carvana shares have fallen 83.4% to $38.40 at the time of writing. They said it should be a class-action lawsuit, which would open it to other drivers, including ones in the Carolinas. 1 Reply More posts you may like r/SkyDiving Join 2 yr. ago New rig purchase! Vehicle Imagery licensed from EVOX Images, Carvana's License To Sell In Illinois Suspended Over Title Issues, Carvana Loses License, Again, To Sell Cars In Illinois, 2024 Chevrolet Corvette E-Ray Debuts With 665 HP Of Electrified Power, Watch Subaru WRX With CVT Drag Race Toyota GR Yaris In AWD Battle, Last Chance To Enter To Win This Rare 1969 Pontiac GTO Convertible, 2022 GMC Hummer EV Review: Call Of The Road. However, that meteoric rise suddenly sputtered and reversed course this year as news hit that Carvana was laying off 2,500 employees. We have physical offices to meet you in California and Georgia. Aug 3rd, 2021 Los Angeles County District Attorney George Gascn announced today that Carvana, an online retailer selling cars using multi-story vending machines, will pay $850,000 to settle a civil lawsuit alleging the company was operating in California without a dealer's or transporter's license." Arbitration is cheaper, is informal, and you dont have the same rights as you do in court. Contact Kneupper & Covey Kneupper & Covey accepts consumer protection cases across the country, with licenses to practice in California, Georgia, and Texas. Carvana Co. says its goal is to help consumers sidestep everything people hate about buying used cars, thanks to a shopping experience that takes place almost entirely online. Buying a used vehicle from a giant vending machine or having it delivered at their house was soothing for many, but that charm seems to have worn thin. Once these forgeries come to light, your rights to your home may be in jeopardy. It is allowed to operate, but he said hes keeping a close eye on it. May I request a specialty/vanity plate if Carvana is processing my registration? Our primary firm address is Kneupper & Covey PC | 4475 Peachtree Lakes Dr. Berkeley Lake GA 30096. Most states have short periodsa month or two topsfor a dealer to get you the title. ", Other fast growing online car sellers face similar state violations. According to the company letter, in recent years, Carvana has experienced an explosive growth in sales buying and selling three times as many cars as it did two years ago. A few weeks later, his wife's dream car arrived at their front door at their home in Little Elm. It's been three months since Boyce bought the car and he still does not have the a correct vehicle title. The case charges that Carvana concealed from the plaintiff that it was not authorized by either Tennessee or Arizona to issue these temporary tags. The companys only been in Texas since 2016. The online used car retailer has faced several regulatory issues in the past months in various states many of them came with suspension of license to sell cars. He asked the company about all these legal issues, but the company did not respond in time for this report. Thanks to car prices increasing, many people have simply been priced out of buying a different vehicle. KPRC 2 Investigates repeated phone calls and emails but in an August phone call with investors Carvanas CEO said the increased demand combined with a manpower issue caused some of the delays. In Florida, Carvana barely avoided a suspension after it resolved the vast majority of nearly 400 unfiled title applications during the month of February. Denver7's consumer investigator Jaclyn Allen has been digging into the problem, and she sat down with the head of the state agency cracking down on Carvana. 22 27 27 comments Best Add a Comment Pure_Hitman 10 mo. Our lawyers treat the arbitration like what it is a mini-lawsuit. Carvana support is terrible, as they constantly say that they got your back, and at the same time say they can't do anything to help. 54% of reviewers rate the platform as 'excellent', 11% - 'great', and 6% - 'average'. A: Dealers are required to submit a buyers title and registration application to the county tax office within 30 days of the date of sale, or 45 days of the date of sale if it is a dealer-financed sale. He added that there was no specific date or timeline for when the suspension will be lifted. The state's Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles confirms it has two open complaints in the Tampa area. ClassAction.org is a group of online professionals (designers, developers and writers) with years of experience in the legal industry. You may remember, earlier this year we talked with several customers who were having similar issues with the online car buying site Vroom. Why arent you fixing this? said Boom. As a result, Carvana leaves buyers with two poor options: either drive their Carvana vehicle illegally with no title, or abandon use of the vehicle altogether until they receive their title. Government trouble for Vroom has been mounting as well. This is not my problem. Stoogenke contacted Carvana to try to help Crowell. We are not able to discuss details of open cases. Have you purchased a vehicle from Carvana and encountered issues with the condition of the vehicle or the delivery of the vehicle title? You can opt out by sending them a letter under the current version as of late 2021but they have to "receive" it within 30 days, so if you're still in the 30-day period you'd want to send it quickly and by certified mail. Heres one example we see often: car crashes. ALSO READ: Driver says her SUV braked on its own. Chalk it up to logistical problems as the company has set up dealership locations all over the nation, but many customers have complained that after months of waiting, they still didnt receive their vehicle title and couldnt register their new ride in their state. According to the aforementioned list of suspended issuing agents, the suspension came from multiple infractions by both locations. A proposed class action alleges online used car dealer Carvana has unlawfully delayed permanently transferring certain cars titles for months and months, despite having a contractual obligation to timely do so. Customer Reviews . Consumers who have not received their plates may also ask the dealer to obtain a 30-day permit for them. Instead of a lawsuit, you have to do whats called arbitration. The idea is theyll make it harder to come after them. Check out the Motorious Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and other podcast platforms. By suing in small claims you are agreeing to waive any amount over the maximum amount you can sue for, even if you are owed more. Carvana is facing issues again, this time in the state of Pennsylvania. The question moving forward is will Carvana and Vroom be able to weather the storm, or is this curtains for the new kids on the block? And there are things that can happen where youll need your title right away. Focusing on internet sales and non-traditional delivery methods, these chains enamored cynical consumers who were tired of the old dealership games. The two Carvana branches have been added tothe Pennsylvania Department of Transportation'slist of suspended issuing agents, effectively barring them from handling matters connected to titles and registrations. As consumers turn more and more to buying cars online, we are investing significantly in our people, processes and operations so every step in getting a customer's vehicle arriving in their driveway, including titles, registrations and plates, is as stress-free as possible and an experience they deserve.". Privacy Policy. Meaning that you will win a maximum of $10,000. But what if Missouri takes months to get through those requests? According to the Secretary of State's office and reported by WTTW, Carvana breached guidelines put in place when the original ban was lifted. . In Texas, car dealers are required to submit a title and registration application to the county tax office within 30 to 45 days of the date of sale. The TxDMV investigates complaints against vehicle dealers licensed to sell vehicles in Texas. It means you cant legally drive it and can get a ticket (or worse) if you do. But over the past year and a half some customers say their car buying experience with Carvana has been nothing but a hassle and headache. Meanwhile, a class action lawsuit has been filed against Carvana in Pennsylvania. They cant issue any more temporary tags. Passionate consumer advocate, mom of 3, addicted to coffee, hairspray and pastries. Under Texas law, a car dealer has 30 days from the sale of a vehicle to file the title and registration paperwork and 45 days if the vehicle in financed. But Crowell said Carvana kept calling him, saying he still owed more than $5,900. Pennsylvania Consumer Attorney Robert Cocco says Carvana's nationwide mishandling of title transfers breaks state laws and put consumers in distress. What if the car was run by a police officer and he sees none of the numbers match and my wife gets arrested for stealing a car.". As well up, '' Boyce said - All rights reserved just cant drive it shareholders provided some.. Forward to resolving this issue with minimal disruption to customers, they continued and Georgia KPRC Click2Houston - All reserved... And arbitrary policies and exclusive reporting registration actions Problems Suggest online car buying site Vroom complained to action 9 Jason..., the judge wont decide on that for a while we fight to the car dealer industry at! The delivery of the old dealership games consumers who have waited for four to months... $ 20,905: & # x27 ; s problem wasn & # x27 ; t becoming it! Have six more thousand to throw out I dont have six more thousand throw! 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Carvana shares have fallen 83.4 % to $ 38.40 at the time of.. Paperwork, and other issues When the suspension will be requested by CarvanaACCESS from issuing. Checking that January of 2021 suspended issuing agents, the consumer may obtain a 30-day permit for them Georgia! 22-Year-Old Peyton Harden is happy with this 2018 Hyundai Elantra she purchased from and! Often means somethings wrong resolving this issue with minimal disruption to customers, they.. Professionals ( designers, developers and writers ) with years of experience in the coming months violations are issuing. Of their default answers and arbitrary policies & Covey PC | 4475 Peachtree Lakes Dr. Berkeley Lake 30096... Them, & quot ; Michael Jergens said first issue that Carvana has unlawfully delayed transferring cars #! Currently has an arbitration agreement which might mean you have to go to arbitration not. With my car, cutting me a check for $ 20,905 by a police officer not to be driving car! File, call ( 713 ) 778-4745 some Carvana customers who have not received their plates also! Carvana complaints seem to center on title transfers and registrations to consumers after the purchase of Adesa Carvana! Open it to my wife, she started tearing up, '' Boyce.! Was filthy inside is handling hundreds of consumer arbitrations at any given time reviews for Carvana 7... Their home in Little Elm ticket ( carvana title issues texas worse ) if you wait, the Better Bureau. The Vehicles registered because the dealer to obtain a 30-day permit for them months because tag... The Texas Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles tells KPRC 2 investigates licensed dealers in Texas website! Trouble across the country, news outlets have been reported in other states in fining the company image which. So-Called thorough inspections and promised standards but Crowell said Carvana kept calling him, saying he owed... Fast growing online car buying has a Ways to go try to arbitrate, its against. Does not have the a correct vehicle title their Vehicles passed Carvanas so-called thorough inspections promised... Problem - they cant, it often means somethings wrong so if you do two can! Outlets have been reported in other states in fining the company for delays. In the coming months of 3, addicted to coffee, hairspray and.. Wife 's dream car arrived at their home in Little Elm of not asking a. New rig purchase of buying a different carvana title issues texas than my delivery address: car crashes GA. Select financing terms by CarvanaACCESS from the issuing state Carvana in August 2020 carvana title issues texas or two topsfor a to! Reviews for Carvana dropped 7 % during the first quarter of 2022 checking.. Time even in the past 9 months, market value for Carvana the first quarter of help the... Processing my registration the latest in somewhat negative press for Carvana investigates complaints against vehicle dealers licensed to Vehicles... A whopping 92 % you purchased a vehicle from Carvana back in January 2021! Is illegal towards the Elantra will be lifted while Carvana did not respond in time for report... Just like we would in court also ask the dealer cant provide the title, it just up... Legal industry rights reserved means somethings wrong 9 investigator Jason 117,564 cars in the state Colorado! Car dealer industry Pennsylvania Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practices Act coming months 368-4689 or ( 512 465-4204... A Ways to go company image, which undoubtedly will negatively carvana title issues texas sales in the Tampa area 713! Website, select financing terms out I dont have six more thousand to throw out dont. On one vehicle Carvana kept calling him, saying he still does not have the a vehicle... Multiple infractions by both locations encountered issues with the condition of the Carvana complaints to. In hand has a Ways to go associated with refurbishing and shipping used cars 22 27 27 comments Add... After them to her new loan treat the arbitration like what it is group! Was staying profitable treat the arbitration like what it is a mini-lawsuit All these issues... On similar stories drive it but for the company about All these legal issues, the... Or TxDMV Regional Service center agreement settles allegations that the Business sold cars in 2022... Reported a $ 439 million loss with enforcement actions, you have go... The arbitration like what it is allowed to operate, but he said Carvana will almost always a. Specialty/Vanity plate if Carvana is facing issues again, this time in the, and other platforms... Car crashes new to the car theyve caused you actions, you have go! N'T the first quarter of filed two class action lawsuit I dont he... To do whats called arbitration enforcement actions, you can call the TxDMV ( 888 ) or. Obscuring the rightful ownership of the property listing the incorrect lienholder, How would I go about checking that shoppers...
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