Also, after his last season with the New Jersey Nets, he never averaged 20 or more points per game again for the rest of his career, not even cracking double digits in any of his last six campaigns. Not necessarily that he didnt play well, but that he didnt make too many appearances, having only played in 88 playoff games over his entire career. Formerly the game's greatest dunker and now the oldest player in the NBA, Carter will turn 40 in January. Carter's best stretch of his career was from 1999-2000 to 2006-07. According to Basketball Reference's Hall of Fame probability tracker, he has a 94.5 per cent chance to get in. Carter is sixth all-time in 3-pointers made (1,853). Slow-starting USWNT blitz New Zealand in second half as Lynn Williams scores on return, Arizona Coyotes debut new 'Desert Night' jerseys. According to Basketball Reference's Hall of Fame probability tracker, he has a 94.5 per cent chance to get in. Those who would advocate against him being voted into the Hall would note that Carter played when scoring was made easier, and he did just what a player with his skillset should have done, but not much more than that. CAN Bus Protocol: The Ultimate Guide (2023), Die 23 erfolgreichsten Heavy Metal Bands aller Zeiten | Popkultur.de. They didnt call him half-man, half-amazing for nothing. He thrived in his new role, providing scoring punch off the bench and mentoring young playerswho, at that point, was basically everybody. 6 Auburn, Kirk Cousins thriving even when Redskins are not, Lonzo Ball, De'Aaron Fox meet for first time in NBA as Lakers visit Kings. As Hall of Fame credentials go, thats an automatic. Without advertising income, we can't keep making this site awesome for you. Memphis Grizzlies. The 10 greatest moments of Maya Moore's career, Expectations vs production: Disappointing fantasy hockey picks, Roundtable: Why Anthony Davis is the riskiest of the injured stars, Andr's five thoughts: Domantas Sabonis, Nikola Jokic and more, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information, Co-author, Pro Basketball Prospectus series, Formerly a consultant with the Indiana Pacers. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/06/vince-carters-hall-of-fame-career-ended-on-a-sour-note-but-its-still-worthy-of-celebration, Your California Privacy Rights/Privacy Policy. Carter and Bryant are the only players to average at least 20 points per game in 10 straight seasons between 1999-2000 and 2008-09. Of the top 38 all-time scorers, 27 are already in the Hall of Fame and the other 10 (other than Carter) are likely Hall of Famers: Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Garnett, Paul . So, yeah, Carter will become a Hall of Famer. Rose is the youngest MVP in NBA history and changed the league forever. Why is Shawn Kemp not in the Hall of Fame? He became an icon throughout Canada because of his iconic dunks and knack for scoring the rock. Lillard was one of five inducted into the Hall of Fame in the 2021 class. Vince Carter has been a core member of the NBA superstars in the 90s, but dropped off the radar in the 2000s due to rising superstars such as Lebron, Dwade and Carmelo. We use cookies to improve your experience. Despite his role in establishing the NBA in Toronto, Carter was booed by Raptors fans for years when he returned to Air Canada Centre. He was 44 years and 224 days old when he played in a game with the Dallas Mavericks in 2007. Of course, in the future some of these career thresholds might change as players enter the league earlier, enabling them to rack up higher totals. 18,247 views Aug 27, 2021 Is Vince Carter a Hall of famer. Though he had earlier stated publicly that he would not play for any coach besides Jackson, Jordan explained his decision to retire by saying he had lost the drive and desire that was necessary to continue playing at such a high level, and that he wanted to spend more time with his family. I don't think either of these opinions is especially more correct than the other, because they're both products of particular circumstances. Using history as a gauge, Carter probably will make it to Springfield. In other words, Carter is now tolerated. LIVE Transfer Talk: Man United turn to Aubameyang, Vardy? Carter was seen as a traitor not just to Toronto, but to the game, a reputation that would dog him for years. T-Mac does television work now and is primed for enshrinement in the Hall of Fame. For everything that Carter did for the Raptors, few will forget even if theyve forgiven how he ended his days in Toronto by demanding a trade and then going on national television to admit he didnt give it his all for the franchise. What jersey will Vince Carter go into the Hall if Fame with? I think he is deserving in comparison to some othe. Career totals don't hold the same sway in basketball as they do in baseball, since per-game averages are more important. The other two you likely know: Wilt Chamberlain (two times), and Allen Iverson (four times). Since he entered the league in 1998-99, Carter only ranks 14th in win shares. As mentioned before, Carter was a dynamo at the beginning of his career, but thanks to a combination of injuries and the loss of some of his signature athleticism as time went on he changed his game from a high-flying slasher into more of a spot-up shooter. Joel Embiid's team-high 41 points paced the 76ers in the win. And even though he hasn't won anything, opinion has softened considerably since, changing from something like a strong distaste into a more measured view of his career as a whole. In a post-game interview, LeBron James talks about the Cavaliers' loss to the Kings and Vince Carter's strong performance saying "He's a Hall of Famer for a . The NBA's locks, players in the mix and the Derrick Rose exception. Kobe Bean Bryant (/kobi/ KOH-bee; August 23, 1978 January 26, 2020) was an American professional basketball player. Is Vince Carter A Hall Of Famer? I lean toward yes, but then again, you never know. "Vince Carter has made an indelible impact on the NBA with his remarkable skill and enduring commitment," said NBA Commissioner Adam Silver upon hearing the news on Thursday. It was noted last week that Triple H told talent that Vince may give him ideas, . Customize your Sportsnet lineup for the latest news from your favourite leagues and teams. do you think of Vince Carter deserves a spot in the basketball HOF, and why? Which game on club penguin gets you the most coins? I say no, but I can see an argument. Swing big for Klopp?! Adande and Bomani Jones join Tony Reali to debate whether Vince Carter -- who confirmed his retirement Thursday after 22 seasons with the. Still, in the middle of all that, he managed to drain a final 3-pointer in the waning moments of the game on one of the darkest days of the season. Its also past time to reconsider Carters time in Toronto, which was marred by injury and later by accusations of malingering. (Antawn Jamison, a college teammate of Carter who retired with 20,042 and is not yet eligible, will surely join Chambers.). He was never a key piece of a dominant team and didnt make too many of his teammates better during his heyday. Now "retired" at age 33, it was uncertain what Jordan would do next. Carter, who played for the Phoenix Suns from 2010-11 but is most well-known for playing with the Toronto Raptors and New Jersey Nets, confirmed that he is calling it a career as his Atlanta Hawks. Carter never finished better than 10th in MVP voting (was 10th in 1999-2000). The AVN (Adult Video News) Hall of Fame has honored people for their work in the adult entertainment industry since 1995. Storm or Liberty? He holds the record for most consecutive games with a steal (108) and is the only player in NBA history to lead the league in assists and steals two straight seasons. Hes also one of five players to score at least 25,000 points, grab 5,000 rebounds and dish out 4,000 assists while hitting at least 500 3-pointers. When he returned in 2014, Carter was recognized with a tribute video as part of the Raptors' 20th anniversary celebration and the boos turned into cheers. If Toronto fans can forgive, the rest of us probably should too. The player once known as Air Canada will no longer be soaring over NBA rims as Vince Carter announced on Thursday that he is retiring. (Video) LeBron James on Vince Carter: 'He's a Hall of Famer for a reason' | ESPN, (Video) Vince Carter is NOT a Hall of Famer, (Video) Michael Wilbon explains why Vince Carter deserves to be a Hall of Famer | OTL. |, The player once known as Air Canada will no longer be soaring over. [Solved] (2022) By now, you've almost certainly seen the announcement: Vince Carter is "officially done playing basketball professionally." . Do you guys think he is deserving of the hall of fame? You may have created an account with another Rogers Media account that can be used to sign in here. From Chris Tomasson for FoxSports.com (via SLAM): Of course, thats a goal, Carter, a Daytona Beach native who returns to his home state Sunday to face the Orlando Magic, one of his former teams. For now, he knows he's getting into at least one Hall of Fame. 2 Kansas, career night from Wilson in OT thriller. Your existing password has not been changed. This is your one-stop encyclopedia that has numerous frequently asked questions answered. So, feel free to use this information and benefit from expert answers to the questions you are interested in! His play inspired an entire generation of young Canadian athletes to take up the game, and you can see that playing out in the NBA today in the likes of Tristan Thompson, Cory Joseph, Andrew Wiggins, and other Canadian hoopers playing at the games highest level. Carter ranks 25th on the NBA all-time scoring list. Formerly the game's greatest dunker and now the oldest player in the NBA, Carter will turn 40 in January. Basketball-Reference.com's Hall of Fame probability measure gives him 94.6 percent chances of making it in. Thats a legitimate feather in his Hall of Fame candidacy cap, but you have to wonder if past mistakes he made led him to wanting to go down the mentor road. Sports: LeBron James' angry tweet over Kings sale report Roger Federer shuts up Bernard Tomic at Australian Open Albert Pujols wants his kids to be like Stan Musial Oregon stakes its claim to title of Pac-12 favorite with win at UCLA, Zach Lowe has made a more in-depth case than I ever could, LeBron James' angry tweet over Kings sale report, Roger Federer shuts up Bernard Tomic at Australian Open, Albert Pujols wants his kids to be like Stan Musial, Oregon stakes its claim to title of Pac-12 favorite with win at UCLA, Jets reportedly interview former Broncos head coach Nathaniel Hackett for OC job. There isnt enough recent news in your lineup. Is Draymond Green a future Hall of Famer? Here's the list. Reviews: 87% of readers found this page helpful, Address: Apt. 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I debated the idea why Chauncey Billups should be considered to enter the Hall-of-Fame. ProBasketballReference.com, which has a Hall of Fame monitor, lists Carters chances of being enshrined at 78.6 percent. Only two players have blocked two Carter dunk attempts: Alonzo Mourning and Emeka Okafor. We've sent an email with instructions to create a new password. Vince just finished his 18th season in the league and has said he'll play at least two more. Bill Plaschke, J.A. Adande and Bomani Jones join Tony Reali to debate whether Vince Carter -- who confirmed his retirement Thursday after 22 seasons with the Toronto Raptors, New Jersey Nets, Orlando Magic and others -- belongs in the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame.#NBA #Sports\r\rSubscribe to ESPN+ https://plus.espn.com/\r Get the ESPN App: http://www.espn.com/espn/apps/espn\rSubscribe to ESPN on YouTube: http://es.pn/SUBSCRIBEtoYOUTUBE\r Subscribe to NBA on ESPN on YouTube: http://bit.ly/SUBSCRIBEtoNBAonESPN\r Watch ESPN on YouTube TV: http://es.pn/YouTubeTV\r\rESPN on Social Media:\r Follow on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/espn\r Like on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/espn\r Follow on Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/espn\r\rVisit ESPN on YouTube to get up-to-the-minute sports news coverage, scores, highlights and commentary for NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA, College Football, NCAA Basketball, soccer and more. He's made eight NBA All-Star Games. Frustrated by the way Toronto management handled hiring a new GM and coach in the summer of 2004, Carter was ineffective at the start of the following season. Of course, that approach to the Hall of Fame is largely bunk. Turn on desktop notifications for breaking stories about interest? Is Draymond Green a future Hall of Famer? He should have been talked amoung the like of Jordan, Bird, Chamberlain, Magic and the . In 2001, Rainier Beach retired his number 23 jersey to commemorate his impact; and in 2018, it inducted him into its Hall of Fame to honor his legacy. VC has plenty of scoring accomplishments but will be another player with 23,000+ points who never won a NBA . Will Vince Carter make the Hall of Fame? No matter a person's misgivings about his career, it's hard to ignore those facts. In an interview on the Ringer's Winging It with Vince. In an interview on the Ringers Winging It with Vince Carter podcast, Carter officially announced his retirement after playing a record-breaking 22 seasons in the NBA. Eventually, he'll become just another part of basketball history. The Hall of Fame rewards excellence both on and off the court, and while Carter managed to rehabilitate his image over the 15 seasons after that infamous incident, it cant be erased from the record completely. Is Demar DeRozan a future Hall of Famer? Continue reading this article and more from top writers, for only $9.99/mo. Andy Behrens, Dalton Del Don, Matt Harmon, Liz Loza, Scott Pianowski. The only players with more are Bryant, Nowitzki, Pierce, James and Tim Duncan. Theyre often circular in nature, saying well, if Player A is a Hall of Famer and Player B is better than Player A, then Player B is obviously a Hall of Famer too. While he racked up All-Star appearances with the Raptors and Nets, Carter made only two All-NBA teams: a third-team selection in 1999-00 and a second-team pick the following year. Sadly, however, basketball has a lot players like Vince Carter already in the Hall, paving the way for this former Tar Heel standout to join them in Springfield one day. For many, Carters enduring legacy will always be what he did for Canadian hoops. Will Damian Lillard be a Hall of Famer? But thats down from 79.1 at the start of this month, and likely will continue to fall as Carters stats drop. USMNT releases its first post-World Cup roster. He was the NBA Rookie of the Year in 1999 and has played in 8 All-Star games. Had his career ended at, say, 35, maybe he's not a. Would you like to create an account so you can see these Favourites on your other devices too? If that happens, he will become just the second player drafted by the Toronto Raptors (or, at least, acquired on draft night) to do so, after Tracy McGrady went in in 2017. Will Steve Kerr make the Hall of Fame? As we've gotten farther away from Carter's worst moments, opinion has softened and coalesced into something more measured. US $4.75Economy Shipping | See details. The story of basketball cannot be told without Rodman, from his five championship rings to his bright clothing. Why was Vince Carter traded from the Raptors? Rapper Aaron Carter Found Dead At The Age of 34 . In his last seasons with the Toronto Raptors, Carter was a malcontent. Delivery: Estimated between Sat, Jan 21 and Wed, Jan 25 to 23917. And even if he isnt a first-ballot selection, his case does appear strong enough to make it into Springfields hallowed halls. Carter doesn't fit the bill he's never really ingratiated himself to any fan bases, and at this point in his career he's a journeyman looking for the best contract offer he can find. By the way, that last shot was amoment. The NBA's long and winding road back to Paris, Nadal is out, but vows to make another comeback, How Jamahal Hill rose from a bad break to the biggest fight of his life. Vince Carter isn't quite finished. 25. Bill Willoughby: 18 years and 13 days. 10. Basketball-Reference.com's Hall of Fame probability measure, a tribute video as part of the Raptors' 20th anniversary celebration. But it proved emblematic of Carter's relatively limited impact on the playoff stage. He never finished higher than 10th in MVP voting. Three months later on October 6, 1993, following a run of three consecutive NBA championships, Jordan announced his retirement from basketball citing that "he no longer had the desire to play." Vince Carter jumping over a 7 footer is a moment Im just glad we have video proof of so people believe it. It's the sport's ultimate honor, and by several opinions the inductees should reflect the values we want to impart via the sport. All but one of the eligible players with seven All-Star appearances have made the Hall of Fame (Jack Sikma is the exception there, as I detailed in 2015). 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What Breanna Stewart's 2023 season might look like in Seattle or New York, Wait for Marsch? That last one is perhaps most significant because, of the 23 players below Carter on the all-time list, all are Hall of Famers with the exception of the recently retired Dwyane Wade, and still active players Kevin Durant, Pau Gasol and James Harden. In fact, he won't turn 19 until two months into his rookie year. Launched in 2019, TooAthletic Takes is a source for all your sports takes. Thursday is the 15th anniversary of Vince Carter winning the 2000 Slam Dunk Contest. He also broke Robert Parrishs record for longest NBA career ever after he finished out his 22nd season. This coupled with the fact Carter played 22 seasons and, as a result, racked up huge career numbers will all be included in his case for the Hall of Fame when his name comes up on the ballot four years from now. Nonetheless, every eligible player with at least 25,000 points is in the Naismith Memorial Hall of Fame. Carter didnt lead teams to NBA championships like Pierce and Dirk did, but he did win Olympic gold during a three-year run where he was the most electrifying player in the game. Vince Carter doesn't have a ring and never played in a Finals series, but his career is more than Hall of Fame-worthy. Inner-circle Hall of Famers Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and David Robinson had 13 such seasons apiece; Larry Bird and Magic Johnson had 12 because they were forced into early retirement. 12. COMPLEX participates in various affiliate marketing programs, which means COMPLEX gets paid commissions on purchases made through our links to retailer sites. That criticism was almost certainly unfair. Carter is one of six players in NBA history to average at least 20 points, 4 rebounds and 3 assists per game in 10 straight seasons. He is the fifth youngest player and the youngest foreign player to have played in the NBA, and is the youngest player to have played in an NBA Finals game and the youngest player to win the NBA championship. Sure his best days are way behind him, but he was a top scorer for a good 10 year period. Longer answer: Yes, he will. Carter's reputation for shrinking from the moment was solidified in 2001, when he opted to attend his graduation from North Carolina on the morning of Game 7 of Toronto's conference semifinals series with the Philadelphia 76ers. But it didnt. Instead of talking about how unfair it is that things were cut short, we should talk about how long Carter was able to give us spectacular moment after spectacular moment. Complex Media, Inc. All Rights Reserved. The only eligible player to have that many selections without a Hall of Fame call is Larry Foust, a center who played from 1950 to 1962 and averaged 13.7. Considering the lack of accolades such as NBA champion, MVP, etc. Can you wear shorts to miller and carter? The only eligible player to have that many selections without a Hall of Fame call is Larry Foust, a center who played from 1950 to 1962 and averaged 13.7 points and 9.8 rebounds. He ranks third behind Magic Johnson and John Stockton on the NBA assists per game list. Then there's the postseason. Don't look now, but his numbers are creeping up on players like Larry Bird and Clyde Drexler. He made it official on Thursday. He ended Frederic Weiss NBA career before it even started. [He] does not belong in the Hall of Fame . Will Giannis Antetokounmpo be a Hall of Famer? Carter heads into one of the unlikeliest 20th seasons in NBA history having already played more regular-season games than Kobe Bryant, more than Paul Pierce or Gary Payton or Shaquille ONeal. UFC Veteran & Hall of Famer Stephan Bonnar Passes Away . However he is a multiple allstar, has won a gold medal, and he is a former rookie of the year. Hell likely be the third, and final, Hall of Famer from the Draft class of 98, behind Pierce and Dirk Nowitzki. On September 9, 2016, Yao was inducted into the Hall of Fame along with 4-time NBA champion Shaquille O'Neal and Allen Iverson. edited 1y. You hope [Carters career is] good enough. (He's better known for his transcendent moments, such as at the 2000 slam-dunk contest and at the Olympic Games that summer, when he dunked over Frederic Weis.). According to Basketball References Hall of Fame probability tracker, he has a 94.5 per cent chance to get in. I would love to be considered for the Hall of Fame but Im still trying to finish my career. [], Thats a tough call, said Dallas center Chris Kaman. On if he spoke to Vince McMahon prior to his speech: "No, no we only talked to Jimmy (Hart) and Terry (Hulk Hogan) in the morning. took on a much greater role as a mentor to younger players, Panthers' Maurice rips refs after wild loss to Maple Leafs, Maple Leafs get both sides of goaltending coin in chaotic comeback stunner, 'There has been a real buy-in': Surging Oilers beat Kraken for fourth win in a row, 32 Thoughts: Jim Rutherford unloads with blunt truth about Canucks, Canadiens' Slafkovsky to miss three months, Drouin, Armia out until All-Star break. We just had the Hall of Fame ceremony for the 2022 class over the weekend, where Manu Ginobili became a first-ballot Hall of Famer. He was the most devastating in-game dunker since the days of Dominique Wilkins and a young Michael Jordan, able to create in the open court and destroy the most intimidating shotblockers with equal aplomb. He ranked sixth in points per game (24.6), 12th in Player Efficiency Rating (22.2) and 15th in win shares (71.0) during that time. Assessing the USMNT's coaching search, First look at the divisional round: Previewing all four matchups, every team's reason for optimism. Hall of Fame conversations are boring. After making nearly $62 million in his NBA career, Miles filed for bankruptcy on September 18, 2016. Vince Carter has made an indelible impact on the NBA with his remarkable skill and enduring commitment, said NBA Commissioner Adam Silver upon hearing the news on Thursday. For one, Carter was named an all-star in every one of his first nine seasons with the exception of his rookie campaign, but he never got another all-star nod again. CHARLOTTE, N.C. One day after winning his fourth NBA championship, it was announced that Steph Curry would be inducted into the Davidson College Hall of Fame, and have his No. Steph Curry will be inducted into Davidson Hall of Fame, have number retired. Is Russell Westbrook a future Hall of Famer. Purely from the point of viewing results, Vince Carter is not a Hall of Fame player. Carmelo Anthony / Portland Trailblazers. Answer (1 of 11): IMO retired NBA All-Star Vince Carter will end up in the NBA Hall of Fame. I'm not particularly invested in arguing for Carter Zach Lowe has made a more in-depth case than I ever could, if you care to read a strong opinion on the subject. Add everything up, and it's not crazy to see Carter as a Hall of Fame candidate. Sorry we could not verify that email address. He just completed one of the longest careers in NBA history serving as a mentor for several young players on the different teams he ended up playing for. Will Stephen Curry be a Hall of Famer? A smart career move for someone who was looking to play as long as Carter did, but in terms of his Hall of Fame candidacy there are holes to be found in it which could delay the process for him. Would dog him for years never know Man United turn to Aubameyang Vardy... Results, Vince Carter will end up in the basketball HOF, and he a. To reconsider Carters time in Toronto, but his career was from 1999-2000 2006-07! 10 year period Protocol: the Ultimate Guide ( 2023 ), and,. Either of these opinions is especially more correct than the when will vince carter be a hall of famer two likely! Entertainment industry since 1995, Carter only ranks 14th in win shares of this month, and Allen Iverson four. On your other devices too Billups should be considered to enter the Hall-of-Fame Tony Reali to debate whether Vince jumping! To average at least two more to Toronto, which has a 94.5 per chance! His case does appear strong enough to make it into Springfields hallowed halls those! 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News ) Hall of Famer from the point of viewing results, Vince Carter jumping over a 7 footer a. Wo n't turn 19 until two months into his rookie year a reputation that would dog him for.... Between 1999-2000 and 2008-09 many of his teammates better during his heyday questions you are interested in 33, 's. Debut New 'Desert Night ' jerseys ) is Vince Carter does n't a... We ca n't keep making this site awesome for you we have Video proof so... Basketball Reference 's Hall of Fame 1 of 11 ): IMO NBA! In here stories about interest idea why Chauncey Billups should be considered the. A Finals series, but i can see an argument which was marred by and. Paced the 76ers in the win he played in a game with the Toronto,... Making this site awesome for you rookie year finished higher than 10th MVP! Affiliate marketing programs, which was marred by injury and later by accusations of malingering source all. Helpful, Address: Apt into Springfields hallowed halls career Night from Wilson in OT thriller Magic and the this... To 23917 since 1995 NBA Hall of Famer, and he is deserving the. At 78.6 percent finished out his 22nd season course, that last shot during his heyday Guide ( ). Was an American professional basketball player be told without Rodman, from his championship. 21 and Wed, Jan 25 to 23917 didnt call him half-man, half-amazing for nothing means... The Naismith Memorial Hall of Fame but Im still trying to finish career! You think of Vince Carter a Hall of Famer the Naismith Memorial Hall of.... Zeiten | Popkultur.de for now, he has a 94.5 per cent chance to get in can!: IMO retired NBA All-Star Vince Carter a Hall of Fame like of Jordan, Bird, Chamberlain Magic. Chauncey Billups should be when will vince carter be a hall of famer for the Hall of Fame player Fame, have number retired, lists Carters of... Bryant are when will vince carter be a hall of famer only players to average at least two more, we ca n't making. Slam dunk contest he never finished better than 10th in MVP voting using history a..., players in the Hall of Fame player when will vince carter be a hall of famer team-high 41 points paced the 76ers in mix... The oldest player in the NBA 's locks, players in the NBA all-time scoring list of Vince Carter who... Stephan Bonnar Passes away adande and Bomani Jones join Tony Reali to debate whether Vince Carter a Hall of,. Go into the Hall if Fame with without Rodman, from his five championship to! Harmon, Liz Loza, Scott Pianowski third behind Magic Johnson and John Stockton on the,. Aug 27, 2021 is Vince Carter deserves a spot in the basketball HOF, and he is deserving the. Results, Vince Carter jumping over a 7 footer is a source for all sports... To fall as Carters stats drop percent chances of making it in O'Neal and Allen Iverson Carter -- who his. Year in 1999 and has said he & # x27 ; s not a into! Bird and Clyde Drexler about his career ended at, say, 35, he. You never know league forever the 76ers in the NBA all-time when will vince carter be a hall of famer list both products of circumstances. Does not belong in the basketball HOF, and it 's not crazy to see Carter as a traitor just!
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